Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. Upload or insert images from URL. Due to the flight school ADSO and timeline, you will be on active duty for about 7 years in order to fulfill the obligations incurred through flight training. I'm good at doing Army things and I enjoy them too, but I don't know if I can commit so much of my life before I've even had my first real taste of being an officer. Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. If you accept tuition assistance, 2 year ADSO. In order to figure out the pros and cons of these different options, we first need to compare the timelines side by side. I ended up discovering that Stan was most worried about frequent moves and long deployments stressing his family during an Active Duty flying career. Yeah a lot of questions for those of us that came into this planning on a 6 year deal. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. Your flight school ADSO is based on when you graduate WOBC and pin on your flight wings. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://thefrontlines.com/comics/army-pilots-beware/. Im scheduled to graduate, 1st or 2nd week of September. Since classes are generally pretty well mixed with people with respect to when they commissioned, the first couple of classes must have been a mix of people on the old 6 and the new 10. Also, it ap-plies to the Regular Army and Reserve Component officers (Army National Guard and U.S. Army Reserve) ordered into aviation service by the Secretary of the Army and applies to all commissioned and warrant officers who are training for or have Army aeronautical ratings. Look down many of us are after something a little more challenging than the admin tasks of a 1SG or CSM. As a Guard or Reserve pilot, you may need to find a full-time flying job in addition to your military flying (full-time Guard/Reserve pilot jobs are available, but you should join with the expectation of needing civilian employment in addition to your military flying). I will still try to join but maybe that's because I'm retarded, Guess my packet will go back on the share drive. Before Army Secretary Ryan D. McCarthy signed a memorandum for the change in June, the Army had bumped up its incentive pay for aviators in January. I ended up not joining because they increased the ADSO. Looks like I'll be doing 10 years insteaddang. The Army likes to have a balance between the two but they can change that over night. Currently in common core here and we still don't know if it applies or not. So 6 years from ALE graduation day? Change flight school where primary flight training is done by civilian contractors via fixed wing. My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Well, when you have a system that initially punishes critical thinking, then requires it later on down the line, you're creating your own problem that ends up causing its own problems. I don't know how common my situation is, but I'm sure there are plenty of people like me who barely flew, while there are others flying until they drop. F-35s in feature image: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky. Army and Air Force use this pay. First, as we just mentioned, you only have to worry about one job flying one aircraft for Uncle Sam. Some of the impacts may have directly affected [Soldiers] ability to pursue [their] goals of working for the commercial sector, especially the airlines.. A 10 year ADSO on a guy that already is a senior E6/E7 probably didn't make a lot of sense at the time as well. Im a turd for putting 2021. I don't want to mess with my retirement, but would love a chance to fly for my country. At the same time it could drive a shortage of Aviation Officers, but if they're going to leave the Army anyway. That's my issue (age waiver). What are the chances of getting picked up. Although I like to poke my Active Duty friends in the chest by asking, What do you love about military aviation that you cant also get in the Guard or Reserves? Ill admit that there are some benefits to Active Duty military service. 9 month rotations are followed by field time, followed by gunnery, followed by EIB, followed by a CTC, etc. That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. Posted on . Believe it or not, more than a few fellow senior non rated Army officers are jealous when it comes to flight pay. That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. c. Officer Candidate School (OCS) graduates accepti ng an appoint in the Regular Army or a Reserve Appointment with a concurrent call to active duty incur a 3-year ADSO (see AR 350 . I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. This puts you right at your commissioning ADSO plus the three-year CSP ADSO. Ultimately, the Army needs to focus on the retention of quality talent; not on retaining mediocre talent for a longer period of time "because they can mandate longer ADSOs.". Your link has been automatically embedded. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. I wonder how this will effect street to seat recruitment for WOFT. Deployed Civil Engineers https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator, according to an all Army activity message published Aug. 12. We are always either training or deploying. Especially if they view retention as a big enough problem to justify an additional 4 year commitment from aviators. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. But Im a guard guy so RTAG is at the end of hooker advanced airframe for me theyll be hiring, all my airline buddies said everything is ramping back up. You get to the airlines sooner, and you spend more years at a major airline. Many aviators got tripped up by it in the last few years in the push to get to the airlines. More than likely, the aviations slots will be filled by personnel lower on the OML. The army has never been good at personnel management. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? U.S. Army UH-60L Black Hawk helicopters from the New Jersey National Guards 1-150th Assault Helicopter Battalion sit on the flight line during sunset at the Army Aviation Support Facility, Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst, N.J., Nov. 8, 2018. The UH-72 costs twice as much to operate as a TH-67. Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. And yet, theres a certain logic to questioning that 10-year commitment. Anything and everything related to or affecting US Army Aviation. The answer is clear. I was under the impression that the bonus went away when they upped the 10+ year flight pay. Although neither has been officially announced, the Army is rumored to be considering two proposals: a provisional status for warrant officer candidates until they graduate flight school and an increase in time-in-grade to make chief warrant officer 2. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. The US Army recently changed its aviation Active Duty Service Obligation from 8 to 10 years and created an absolute uproar. NO WOFT POSTS. Such changes may affect my status, Start date has no impact on this. I bet less than 300 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! The disparity grows as pilots continue service, with a difference of $1,560.80 per month in favor of a major with fourteen years of service compared to a chief warrant officer 4 with fourteen years of service. While the ADSO goes into effect in October, its effect on retention wont be felt for at least six years after the first ten-year ADSO class graduateslikely not until late 2027. Especially since TN he Chinooks are B Co 2-104 from CTARNG and I was the CDR and PC sitting in the left of the Chinook in the foreground on the left. The earlier you can, INTERVIEW PREP PACKAGE (eCourse + 1-on-1's), 1 HOUR INTERVIEW PREP ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), 1 HOUR APP REVIEW ADD-ON (Add'l 1-on-1 Coaching for eCourse & Package Customers), https://www.dvidshub.net/image/3982524/f-35-sky, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/491088/deployed-civil-engineers, https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6100141/c-17-air-drop, The Ultimate Guide to Earning a Pilot Slot in Air Force ROTC, Part 1, As Stan would be finishing up his 5-year ADSC, hed need to be shopping for Guard and Reserve UPT board announcements on. Comments will be moderated before posting to ensure logical, professional, and courteous application to article content. What if Stans 5-year ADSC runs out as the next SARS/Swine Flu/COVID-type pandemic puts hiring on hold? Im not young, but Ive aged well and am not ready to resign myself to a desk. The Army only draws between 300-400 non prior WOFT applcants yearly. Yes, , and its important to get there as quickly as you can because, . NO WOFT POSTS. It is for anyone graduating flight school and should be based on your graduation date. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. Sounds great! It involves no effort to understand the underlying factors that cause Army pilots to depart and is nothing more than a surface-level solution to a fundamental problem. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. That evens the odds even more. Stan was worried about his Active Duty career path (Option #2) because it would ensure several years of moves and deployments. If ATPs are granted, I'll be the first one to sign up as a warrant officer. One year dedicated to reset, one to training, one to deployment. If anything it hurts recruiting new pilots. The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. These trips have to be funded at his own expense and would require him to use leave that wont be available for family trips. 10 is nuts. How to Join and Requirements Scholarship Opportunities Cadet Life , Network, As the COVID-19 crisis continues to drag on, I cant help asking my crystal ball how things are going to shake out. Getting in just under the wire. The Army is the only service which allow non college graduates in being Officers and pilots as we know. Our young NCOs want to become warrant officers and get out and fly. I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. Graduate School Program: Only 20% of the Aviation Branch allocation for ROTC and West Point can receive the Graduate School Option. Proponents of the new ADSO have suggested that the Army is catching up with the Air Force and the Navy by matching its pilot obligation with theirs. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. For anyone facing a 10-year military pilot ADSC/O, this means asking yourself: What is it about military flying that made you want to do it in the first place?. Those serving on active duty for less than 10 years shall serve in the Ready Reserve as follows: For active duty service less than 8 years, 6 years in the Ready Reserve. In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. Even just a year or two of delay erases any possible advantages of this career path. Back in the 1950s, the Army ask for a waiver in not paying flight pay for its pilots. . The Army may producean averageof 1200 Warrant Officers pilots annuallyincluding the Guard and Reserves. Meanwhile students don't do touchdown autorotations and other traditional flight maneuvers. What I would propose is to change the flight school is conducted to make it cheaper and make it easier to increase throughput. Plus, you will also be earning full GI Bill benefits AT THE SAME TIME. I just want to stop leaving my family all the time! I was just curious if the numbers are stillsimilar. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. More career Enlisted apply than street to seat on a yearly basis. Id always wanted to be a pilot and didnt know anything else, so I said the Doolie equivalent of Shut up and take my money! (There was a lot more Sir and Maam involved.) Powered by Invision Community, https://www.reddit.com/r/Armyaviation/comments/gxcx3o/10_year_adso_is_official/. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. Fixed wing is cheaper. Is a 10-year Active Duty ADSC so terrible that its worth passing up? I know this is an old article but as a graduating senior this policy is stupid. Service commitments are different for Warrant Officers in the Army Reserve and the Army National Guard. Stans Active Duty pilot peers would have spent 8-11 years since graduating from college flying for the military full time. There's the technical expertise that goes along with it as well. People tend to forget, aportion of the street2seat WOFT applicants areprior service. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. I bet less than 400 WOFT selected are non prior service on a annual basis. If you love the flying youre doing, and you have a squadron of good people, any assignment can be a great experience, no matter how busy you are. And finally, the Army will likely find that it should increase flight pay beyond what has already been offered. Although its less common to get more than 6-12 months of your ADSC forgiven under this program, that still gets you off Active Duty sooner than expected. "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer. Laws and regulations that govern military personnel may For the Army, the costs are much cheaper. By collecting data and then improving quality of life and quality of service with targeted retention initiatives, the Army will not just increase retentionthe positive changes will increase the appeal of serving as a pilot in the Army, and recruiting will increase as well. Another anecdote, when I was deployed there was a desire to have experienced cockpits on higher risk/higher visibility missions usually two pilots with 1000+ total hours. For more information, please see our , you must start on Active Duty. Can you hear the roar of approval erupting from Army doctors across the globe serving out their decade plus commitments? The Army says it needs the UH-72 for training because it teaches the use of glass cockpit and other advanced technology. I'm retiring in two years and it's not even to go to the airlines! In regards to our flight school length, the AF and Navy actually won't recognize our flight school as a valid flight school for earning wings if we try to branch transfer as part of it which I do find amusing. TheGovernment Accountability Office reported, for example, that it can take two years and three to eleven million dollars to produce a mission-ready fighter pilot. Theres a two word solution to this, age waiver. But then again, it's 4 more years of employment or should I say deployments. That's not what I am talking about. Yes, they will retain aviators when the quality of life increases for aviation, not just grinding us into the ground until a new command comes along every 12-18 months and does it all over again. 1 Sacknuts93 3 yr. ago Probably not. 10 years after flight school graduation. His answer was, Of course not. One can just see all those 2LTs cringing when the folks at the bottom of each class are forced to take Aviation during the branching ceremony. The, exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. is working as an Admission Liaison Officer for the USAF Academy. Hed probably get 2-3 years at that assignment, but if he did a good job the Air Force would offer him the chance to get a Masters Degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology (AFIT) at Wright Patterson AFB. It never ends. These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. You don't have to have a college degree to apply or be accepted into it, he said. Brennan Randelis a captain in the United States Army and is the former commander of Alpha Company, 4-2 Attack Battalion stationed at Camp Humphreys, South Korea. Is it only for new guys coming in? People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. Signal: The IT department of the Army. Ideally, you should enlist with one of those units as soon as youre old enough and serve part-time while you complete college. It just seems like a bait and switch to have me sign a conditional release and paperwork that says 6 years and then say, oh by the way we meant 10. Thoughts anyone? While a longer ADSO may help from looking solely at the numbers, it won't be effective at retaining quality talent. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. Often times these decisions being made do more harm than good, and cause a tremendous amount of work (just look at our administrative packet processes). 10 year ADSO started FY21. But at what cost? So Army. Its a lot to ask. The Army should be able to meet their quota through CAREER Enlisted personnel ONLY if they must. What is the real answer? The increase in the ADSO will have profound affect on USMA/ROTC cadets. Starting in October, all personnel selected to attend the Armys initial entry aviation training will incur an ADSO of ten years upon graduation from flight traininga dramatic increase from the previous six-year commitment. After working several years in the corporate sector in various strategic positions, I recently came back on active duty due to the strong desire to serve. It's almost as though he completely and totally ignored the concept of morale and esprit de corps. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. That is not a good thing. It was not a wild decision to take a small hit to accession to make sure you have mid careerists. While the goal of the CSA's program was a well intentioned effort to make up for a dearth of aviation experience at senior ranks, it wasn't well received and Congress bit back. While there are some top performers that will elect to pursue the branch because they plan on a career from the beginning, there are far more that may be hesitant or undecided about committing to a decade of their professional lives to a niche field when they're only 22 or 23 if they aren't already passionate about everything aviation. Therefore, this option is virtually free for Aviation officers. Ironically, the reason why Congress established a limit on entry into flight training is because the Army in the late 60's and early 70's started to funnel relatively large numbers of maneuver General Officers through flight school. This means that a BCT that goes to a CTC once a year always demands CAB support. If he didnt go to AFIT, hed have to move for a second assignment anyway. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. We dont have good measurements out there right now to tell us why an aviator is getting out of the force. Without useful data, the Army cannot implement targeted retention solutions. Your appointment to W1 is a conditional appointment until you graduate flight school so you will revert to whatever enlisted rank you held prior to WOCS. While I completely understand the desire of people to fly, there is more to it than that. Unfortunately, it probably wont exist long enough for it to achieve the desired effects. Do most of your fellow aviators love it? You cannot paste images directly. I retired in 1998. The policy also applies to Army Reserve and National Guard components, but their obligated service will remain part-time, he said. With 21 years as a Soldier and 10 years reviewing cost estimates for all equipment tests, Mr. Ysa Garza said everyone always has to be safety conscience in his role as an additional duty safety . Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. Ive also called this the, Stans idea (Do 5 years as an engineer, then fly for the Guard or Reserve), Looking at these side by side, its clear why #1 is the Ultimate option. WASHINGTON -- Starting in October, commissioned and warrant officers selected for initial entry flight training will be required to serve at least a decade once they become an Army aviator,. An ADSO twice as long as other branches (for academy grads) or 6+ years longer than ROTC counterparts is only going to deter quality officers that view an additional obligation as a loss of opportunity for careers beyond the service. The extended ADSO is intended to increase Army pilots' retention in the future. I wouldnt put it past B Co to drop incorrect information and later say we didnt say that.. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. Typical Army of not addressing the real issues. This means that aviation formations get screwed doubly they have to support everyone's demands, while being vastly outnumbered. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. I'm about to retire from the Air Force as an engineer, O-4, mostly dest and staff job. In the current COVID crisis, those years may soon make the difference between having a great job and getting kicked to the curb as a furlough. That means, we need you! With a 10 year ADSO and an 8 year max time in service requirementit significantly reduces the in house pool as well. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the. Due to the extreme demand produced by the GWOT, ground formations are insatiable with their demand for aviation support. However, has he really had a better home life than them? This of course will do nothing to fix the problem of toxic leaders, poor assignment choices, or any of the other issues. Display as a link instead, No products in the cart. Privacy Policy. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. However, I dont think its worth passing up a nearly guaranteed Active Duty. Its shocking that the Army doesnt have any institutional memory about what causes pilot shortage, which are primarily two broad topics: quality of life in the Army, and economic opportunities outside the Army. I assume if you're not finished withflight school by 30 Sep 20, your commitment is just as long as the Air Force if not a little bit longer. This is not going to end well until leaders finally understand that there has to be a work/life balance. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. Sounds great! Well, the short answer is, we dont know. If you want to. Really sucks for all the street2seat guys coming in or anyone that has prior Aviation experience on the outside. The. There is no replacement theory for ARFORGEN they decided to just shelve it and go with "let's make everyone miserable all the time". It wasn't approved. Even if the increase in commitment lowers the civilian WOFT applicantnumbers, the in house career Enlisted pool will fill the void. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. As a result, the US Army Aviation Center of Excellence initiated a survey to better inform future incentive and quality of life programs designed to increase retention.. Thereafter, the ADSO incurred pursuant to the Army Branch for ADSO Program will be served concurrently with any other non-statutory ADSOs. 10 year ADSO is official 78 212 212 comments Best Add a Comment awestm11 3 yr. ago "Army Aviators don't want to stay in the Army even though we pay them less, deploy them more, and treat them worse than their peers in other branches and civilian careers, so we will just force them to stay in longer.
